Democratizing Fundraising Through Social Giving with Guest Nick Black

October 7, 2022

Nick Black isn’t who you would expect to start a nonprofit, or a tech company. Until you talk to him, and all the pieces come together.

After serving in the Army in Pakistan, Nick was faced with a problem he knew he had to do something to solve. So he started a nonprofit. Through that, he discovered the giving experience wasn’t the same for all donors, and he knew he had to solve that problem too. Now he’s on the podcast, sharing how you can capitalize on the ways you already interact with donors to make their experience better and raise more than ever before.

Episode Highlights

Introduction of Nick Black, Stop Soldier Suicide and GoodUnited – 1:47
Finding your donors – 4:05
Defining social giving – 6:49
Figuring out where to start – 12:47
Utilizing available resources on LinkedIn – 15:18
Cultivating support in channel through messaging – 18:19
Navigating social giving – 21:52
Integrating GoodUnited with other systems – 24:44
Transitioning from the military to nonprofits to tech – 25:13

Full Transcript

Nick Black  
You realize that we needed to meet donors where they spend time. You know, I don’t spend a ton of time on the websites spend time on social networks. So our thesis is really how do we meet people where they’re at, to make that gift? But maybe more importantly, using conversation, messaging and channel?

How do we cultivate you where you want to be so we can get you to take that next action?

Monica Pitts  
You’re on a mission, and you just need more people to know about it. And whether you’re brand new to marketing or a seasoned pro, we are all looking for answers to make marketing decisions with purpose. I’m Monica Pitts, a techie crafty business owner, mom and aerial dancer who solves communication challenges through technology. This podcast is all about digging in and going digital. I’ll share my marketing know how and business experience from almost 20 years of misadventures, I’ll be your backup dancer. So you can stop doubting, and get moving towards marketing with purpose. Hello, everybody, and welcome back to Nonprofit Marketing with Purpose. My name is Monica Pitts, and I am your hostess today. And the lucky lady who gets to interview our guest, Nick Black. Now, Nick is with GoodUnited. And he’s going to tell us about what that company does in a moment. And he’s also the founder of Stop Soldier Suicide, which is a nonprofit. So I invited him here today, because everybody is asking questions about social giving. And either they’re at the beginning or like somewhere in that journey. And so I’m hoping Nick can kind of coach us through it. Nick, why don’t you introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about what you do?

Nick Black  
Yeah, thanks for having me. My name is Nick Black, I got into nonprofit work through my service in the military. I was a ranger qualified officer and 173rd Airborne. And the 27 months in Afghanistan, I lost more service members to suicide than to the enemy. So with that, I got out of the military, started a nonprofit called Stop Soldier Suicide, did every job at the organization building from the ground up. Today, there’s 65 employees based out of Raleigh, North Carolina, with the mission to reduce veteran suicide and national average. But through that journey, the one area that really got me fired up was donor activation and cultivation, and really focused on the long tail.

So today, seemingly, most organizations only have the capacity to build relationships with the wealthiest donors. What would the world be like if we could leverage technology to take that experience that today is reserved for the wealthy, and apply it to the average Joe and Joette?

So we know that philanthropy is big business 482 billion given each year, the long tail of donors, people like you and I give nine times as much to wealthy philanthropists and foundations. So GoodUnited came about, from my experiences at Stop Solider Suicide, founded in 2014. And with a mission to democratize nonprofit support experience. along that way, we realized that in order to do that, we needed to meet donors where they spend time. So while I’m on the board of a nonprofit, and I started board three and started one, you know, I don’t spend a ton of time on the website spend time on social networks. So our thesis is really how do we meet people where they’re at, to make that gift? But maybe more importantly, using conversation, messaging and channel? How do we cultivate you where you want to be, so we can get you to take that next action?

Monica Pitts  
I 100% agree. And I always coach people, that all of the people that they have contact with, whether they’re the people that they serve, or the people that make donations have something that they can give, and we shouldn’t just overlook them, because they want to be part of what you’re doing. They believe in you probably more than anyone because they actually are recipients of the gift that you’re giving. And I just feel like you’re overlooking a huge opportunity, when you’re not talking to everyone in your audience. And it sounds like you’re really opening the door for people to be able to do that better.

Nick Black  
Yeah, I appreciate that. Monica, we think that there’s a whole new shift happening we’re calling third shift of giving. But essentially what I believe that social fundraising represents is a new growth vertical for organizations to dive into, like they did with website and email 20-30 years ago, what we found working with the world’s largest nonprofits, is that their initial assumption was that they’ve already acquired these donors, right? They have massive 10s of millions of emails on their house file.

What we found is generally over 95% of people that are giving to social networks are new.

I think this raises an important question, why haven’t we engaged them before? And what we’re seeing is a general trend that people are spending more time and more niche places. Do you play video games by any chance? 

Monica Pitts  
No, I don’t. 

Nick Black  
Right. So like, I can’t fathom someone watching someone else play video games online. I can’t understand how someone will donate to watch other people play video games online. But that is a you know 100 million dollar plus fundraising machine. And I bet you that those people don’t want to follow up an email. And so what we’re seeing is just a wild explosion of these niche audiences finding each other whether in, you know, they’re in certain application like Reddit, or they’re on Facebook, the Meta, Instagram. And I think nonprofits, we need to ask ourselves, how do we meet people where they’re at, and given the opportunity to engage with us on their terms, not ours.

Monica Pitts  
Exactly. And that’s why we can’t just have this one silo marketing approach, we have to be finding people where they’re at. And we can also recycle some of our messaging, if it’s appropriate across those different places, and make sure that we’re continuing this conversation with with everyone and in the way that they want to be spoken to, because I am not going to be on Facebook looking for your group message, I’m not ever probably going to see it, I have to make a point to go out and look, and then I’m frustrated. And so I would love it, if you would just email me, but I’m not everyone. And we have to like examine who our audience is to make sure that we are doing what they need us to do.

Nick Black  
So yeah, this is I think, you know, oftentimes nonprofits seem to be fighting over their slice of the pie. But I truly believe that the pie is large, and it’s growing.

And there’s all new ways to engage with people.

But the challenge set is unlike 20 years ago, and there’s a pretty definitive line of direct mail or email, there’s a lot of new places to find people that could really care about what you do.

Monica Pitts  
So let’s take a step back for a second, because we’re talking about social giving. I think that some people also call it social fundraising. I was just hoping that you could give us like this short overview of what that means.

Nick Black  
Yeah, so the simplest point, will probably be defining a social network. So if you think of a social network, like Facebook, Instagram, within a metaverse, TikTok, Twitch, Spotify, right, these are all social networks, the intent of the social networks is to keep people in platform to engage them, to put some type of content in front of them that drives revenue.

Who has better stories than nonprofits? Not many people, right?

So nonprofit content they create are wonderful and very impactful levers for the business models of these social networks, social networks don’t want you to leave. As such, they try to replicate a lot of functionality they looking for outside of it within their own channel. What we’ve seen since 2017 is philanthropy is a incredible lever to keep people engaged. So starting with Facebook, they allowed people to make a donation started a fundraiser, and also took away all transaction fees. So creating a seamless and frictionless experience to give. And from that they’ve accelerated over $6 billion given in platform, but other channels are coming alive on online as well. Do you know who Marshmello is, the artist? 

Monica Pitts  
Yes. 

Nick Black  
So I didn’t. We have a 20 year old that works with us. And he was telling me about Mr. Marshmello. 

Monica Pitts  
Okay. 

Nick Black  
There’s a guy named Marshmello right? So he took me to Spotify. And Mr. Mello was tied to his local food bank, you can make a donation through Spotify. So you can see that philanthropy is starting to spread, right. And it’s being integrated into all whether it’s Uber. Have you taken Uber recently? Right, International Rescue Committee Ukraine, right. So we’re integrating philanthropy and all these different ways of becoming part of daily life.

And I think that’s what social giving is, right? How social networks are leveraging philanthropy to make donations in channel. And how nonprofits engage with those people.

Monica Pitts  
Even just the other day at Walgreens? They were like, do you want to round up? And I’m like, Well, sure. Yep. Absolutely. Like, you can donate my money to someone who needs it. That’s, that’s great. And it makes reconciliation of the checking account just that much easier not to have a bunch of really strange little pennies in there. So it’s definitely on the increase. I know that people are using social giving more and more. I’m wondering like with the data that and the, the in the organizations that you have access to do you know, are people now using this kind of as a fundraising cornerstone for their organizations? Or is it kind of like a supplemental, ongoing thing? Like what role is it playing for nonprofits right now?

Nick Black  
Like every role, so I can speak to Stop Soldier Suicide since I’m a founder. So we went from generating couple $100,000 in 2018 to over $10 million last year, all through Facebook. And so opportunity to meet new people. It’s a cornerstone of what we do. It is a very much, you know, I think there’s two models creating the the Facebook as a b2c. So it’s a nonprofit to consumer. And what it enabled us to do was skip the heavy infrastructure costs of fundraising, as you know, and your listeners know, nothing’s free, right. I couldn’t believe they have to pay police officers to show up at your 5k race. Then you have the orange slices isn’t all the stuff that goes with it, it’s very difficult, very time intensive and very costly to raise money. What’s really neat about a virtual world is that you can flip that whole model on its head, in that nonprofits are now enabled to go directly to the consumer without the heavy infrastructure to get them to give. And that’s what Stop Soldier Suicide and other nonprofits have found.

It’s a very cost effective way to build community that raises money for you.

Monica Pitts  
So we mentioned that you can do it like on Spotify, right? And that it’s on Facebook, for sure you see that and even now, like one idea that I would love to see people incorporate is just using something you might already have like an email to remind your donors that as their birthday comes up, they can create a campaign where people can donate on your on their birthday to your organization, that would be something that would be so easy to integrate. But like also like, what about GoFundMe and other places like that? Do you consider that social giving? Or is that just like online? Like capital building?

Nick Black  
No one’s asked me that question. I think it’s a good one. So I view GoFundMe more as a transactional, maybe a DIY type of fundraising, where someone can start but not generally, it’s generally not the nonprofit user coming in for a broken arm, whatever it might be for their own cause. So we don’t, you know, I haven’t done a lot of research into the GoFundMes in the world. I know what their acquisition of Classy, but they’re doing some interesting things. And I think they’re definitely something to look out for. But the challenge set with a GoFundMe, at least as I understand it, is difficult to build equity and repeatability and predictability. So as such, right, you can have a successful GoFundMe campaign. But now what as we think about social network and social fundraising, when someone makes a gift and not part of my community, I have the opportunity to cultivate and get that next gift, and really start to build equity into a system.

So maybe equity is the way to look at it. Where can I build or where can I transact?

Monica Pitts  
Well, and back to what you said earlier, the beautiful thing about social giving is you’re meeting people where they are and when you’re going out to a system like GoFundMe, you’re asking people to go to a system where they’re probably not already, like I don’t usually go out to GoFundMe and think, well, where am I gonna give my money today? Like, I need to have someone tell me to go there. So that is probably the major like divider in between the types of systems that would be considered social giving or just online, you know, fundraising.

Nick Black  
Yeah, spot on, Monica. That’s absolutely right.

Monica Pitts  
So are there benefits to using like one platform or another? Or like, where do you suggest people start?

Nick Black  
Facebook. Facebook is growing, Facebook is 99% of the business case right now. I think the other networks are coming online trying to replicate what Facebook has proven out that philanthropy is a, let’s be honest, right, philanthropy is a lever for their business value while also doing a credible amount of good.

Facebook is the place to start, I encourage every nonprofit to register for Facebook’s donation tools, people be able to start birthdays for you make a donation, that is definitely the place to start.

That being said, we’re very bullish on Instagram. It’s different animal entirely. But the opportunity to tell stories and get people engage in that platform was pretty powerful. But I would encourage everyone to get into Facebook, to register for donation tools, and also start to use some of the functionality they built around Groups, Groups, they deprioritize Pages, in favor of Groups. And in a Group you can have the most impactful community building organizations, people are going to see the messages that you have. It’s an incredible tool for nonprofits, whether it’s creating a Group around recurring donations, right, inviting to the Group, where a special Group of you donate X amount, I think there’s a lot of interesting strategies to do cultivation at scale, leveraging some of the tools that they built.

Monica Pitts  
Do you know, if they have anything on LinkedIn that would allow people to do social giving?

Nick Black  
So not yet. We are trying to have conversations with the LinkedIn team on LinkedIn posted a month ago that they’re having some nonprofit functionality come out. But in regards again speaking for Stop Soldier Suicide LinkedIn is the greatest targeting tool I’ve seen, right and from the military. If I could go back to 2007 and have LinkedIn-style targeting, it would be unbelievable. So if we think about high net worth gifts and corporations, leveraging Sales Navigator and LinkedIn, there’s no better way to identify an example for Stop Soldier Suicide. Within 15 seconds, I can look up former Marines that are in air defense business with the VP title under 5000 employees with Y amount of revenue, it’ll populate a list, I can reach out and start to cultivate those people.

I think LinkedIn is an absolute. It doesn’t have the functionality given platform. But as far as I know, it’s the best way to identify people that could resonate with your cause.

Monica Pitts  
Now, do you have to use like an external service to be able to generate a list like that? Or is that something that you can do natively in LinkedIn?

Nick Black  
So if you think of LinkedIn, what you see is a platform that’s aggregating data, right, the free platform. Behind the scenes, there’s an overlay called Sales Navigator. And in Sales Navigator, I believe that there’s 25, to 30 different filters, that you can be able to comb through all of the data that is inputted into LinkedIn. So I can create a list with those filters of geography of former companies size of companies, title, function, revenue of company, and what that allows us to do is create some really tight targeting circles. And again, from a Stop Solider Suicide point of view, I’m going to have a relationship with an Army veteran, much different than a Navy veteran, that Army veteran, are they in a tech company? Or they you know, you know, biopharma right, what position at that tech company, right. So that allows us to really get honed in on where do you find fit and who resonates with your mission?

Monica Pitts  
And that’s all just part of like the native system, you don’t have to pay extra to use that? Sales Navigator? 

Nick Black  
You have to pay for Sales Navigator. Yes. It is absolutely worth it. I’ve I don’t know I haven’t asked deliberately. But I’ve yet to have any nonprofit tell me that they’ve done Sales Navigator. Stop Soldier Suicide is. And again, it’s the best tool that I’ve seen, from business development point of view to understand who could potentially need what you have.

Monica Pitts  
Yeah, they do have some amazing sorting features. One year, we were looking at our campaign data from our local year-end giving campaign, it’s called CoMoGives it’s powered by the Community Foundation, and my company MayeCreate does the marketing for it and the reporting. And so like last year, we raised $1.8 million. Between all of our nonprofits, that was pretty amazing. But we found a few years ago that our best donors were coming from LinkedIn posts. And we were like, well, we should focus more energy on LinkedIn. So the next year, we focus more energy on LinkedIn, then no one made a donation at all from clicking on a LinkedIn post. And I was like, what? It was such a bummer. So almost all of our donations actually come from if it’s from social media, they’re coming in from Facebook, which just goes right back to what you said earlier. Facebook is a great place to start.

Nick Black  
Yeah, I think Facebook is about five years ahead of the rest of the market.

But the the market’s catching up.

So TikTok is integrating philanthropy, like right now, it’s a very selective audience that they’re bringing in. But again, right, it philanthropy is incredible lever and aligns perfectly with their business value.

Monica Pitts  
Now, as people get started in social giving, it’ll probably be you know, you grow as you grow into it. But as they gets bigger, a bigger part of their fundraising, then they’re probably going to want to use some tools to stay organized and have better insights and get the donor data to use and I think that you’re providing a solution for that kind of thing. So tell us about GoodUnited.

Nick Black  
Yeah, absolutely. See, you hit the nail on the head. GoodUnited, we solve a lot of the problems around data, what’s happening in the social network and social giving, but more importantly, to us, right, in order to democratize nonprofit support experience, the mechanism we do that is through conversational messaging. And so the opportunity, right, friction is a bad word at GoodUnited, we try to attack friction in the user journey and every step we can. So the most frictionless frictionless experience is to cultivate people in general. And so we do that by the messaging of Messenger, WhatsApp, right and Instagram messaging. So when we follow up, and if you make a gift and platform, how can we then turn you in a subscriber and then we empower nonprofits, with the human judgment and technology to say, Okay, well, I know that Monica is want to go down this path. And because it’s messaging, what email might have a long revolution, these are rapid revolutions where you and I are having a conversation. And that’s how I believe we’re gonna get to our mission of democratizing the sport experience.

What’s amazing about cultivating people in channel is we can have them start a fundraiser with one click a donation with one click.

But the challenge it’s a double edged sword. And that because these new messaging channels are owned, for example, from Messenger, it’s owned by Meta. On one hand, you have crystal clear opportunity to communicate with a 99%, open rate 45% click through rate. Incredible. On the other hand, they read what you send them, and the bar is very high. So doing it at scale requires a lot of technology to create that meaningful experience. Otherwise, you will spam them and because Facebook has no incentive or any social network to have a spammy channel, they will punish you.

Monica Pitts  
Yeah. When you get the weird like, reply back, you’re like, this is a this is not a real human. This is a bot like, should I even stick around? Maybe not. So I love what you said, frictionless. I think that in the web universe, which we build websites, I think of it like, how many clicks does somebody have to get someplace? And it is, it has, there is less friction, if I email you with a link in it to get someplace, then if I send you a postcard and ask you to take a picture of this QR code or type in this domain to get someplace. So what you’re saying is you guys are making it to a more seamless experience for people back and forth, less clicks in my universe, I guess.

Nick Black  
Less clicks. We’ve built some technology off the API with Facebook, that it’s actually it’s too efficient. But literally one click you’ll start a fundraiser. And so I was trying to demo this for one of our new partners. And I didn’t know I started a fundraiser. And I did. And because the algorithm takes over, I raised $300. And I had no idea. And then my friend asked me, Well, why don’t you say thank you, I said, I have no idea what you’re talking about.

And lo and behold, I started a fundraiser.

Monica Pitts  
That’s impressive. I also find like, if you are in Facebook often, then they do make these small changes all the time. And so if you’re in it, often, you probably might not notice these changes, you just kind of evolve with the system. But if you’re not in the system, often, then using a service like GoodUnited might remove some of that weirdness that you feel to get in and refigure things out, because you guys have probably put together a user interface that’s maybe a little bit more intuitive than Facebook, because most of their user interfaces are not super intuitive.

Nick Black  
Yeah, you know, we’ve actually, we’re the first social good partner for Meta. So what’s really neat is that we get to talk with their engineers and co-create a lot of the things that are happening. There’s this new feature set, especially for nonprofits coming out from it’s a Nonprofit Hub. And what’s really neat about that is they’re taking some of the features that are disparate, and currently in strange places, putting it in one spot, but most importantly, is that the work that we’ve done with messaging is now being prioritized. And so the opportunity for donors to their experience to opt in the messenger, that’s how our clients are building equity into this new channel. And that it’s great to receive birthday revenue, right?

Speaking for Stop Soldier Suicide, there’s nothing greater than receiving $30,000 seemingly for free.

What’s frustrating is I have no idea how to make more, I have no idea how to control it. So how do we go from a reactive environment of free money to say, Okay, now we’re starting to build an equity into the system, we have 40,000 subscribers, 150,000 subscribers, and through GoodUnited we can send the right message to the right person, right time that drive that next action. And that’s how we can make this harness this new channel to drive revenue into the future and continue to build.

Monica Pitts  
One of the challenges I’ve heard nonprofits say is that when people make donations on Facebook, they don’t always know who that donor was. And so it find that it doesn’t allow you to start in your relationship, it just allows you to intake money, do you guys help them get that information? Or is it still going to float in the cyber universe?

Nick Black  
So we help them get the information where we can thank every single donor, right, every single fundraiser that makes a transaction. But unlike the website, someone has to opt in rather than opt out, okay. And so that creates an opportunity where we get people to opt in the messenger, and we can collect all the data possible. But through a system, we’re allowed to say who these people are, but you don’t get the emails like you would generally. And what we found is when we first started this, people came for the email addresses and they stayed for Messenger, and that continues with all of our clients.

Monica Pitts  
Email, like integrated with your system? Or is this just strictly Messenger and part of a social platform, it feels like there’s so many systems that integrate email, and I’m never sure if it should be integrated or not.

Nick Black  
Yeah, one of our virtues is do less better. So we are solely focused on in channel communication. One of the exports from our system is emails. So a lot of our clients put those people into their traditional journeys, which I think is great, because we want to tell the right stories, but what we found is attacking friction in order to attack friction. As soon as you take someone out, you lose a lot, as you know, right? So how do we keep people in the system and start to build the tools to message you where you are?

Monica Pitts  
Does your system integrate with others, like say you do get somebody’s email address? Will it automatically push it into MailChimp? Or is that something that has to be manually reconciled?

Nick Black  
We have an open API that we can integrate with right now generally, what we see is with Blackbaud and Salesforce, we have those integrations. And I think you know, the the one area here Monica is I don’t have all the answers we’re learning. We have a cold innovation, but this is just an exploding market, where there’s also are some new and new possibilities. And so one of the things to crack is what do you do with these email addresses when you have them? Because they’re new.

And so I think it’s just, it’s just a whole world of learning right now, to unlock this, this new channel.

Monica Pitts  
Okay, so my last question for you, which I always so we build websites, right? You were part of the military, and then you started a nonprofit, and you ran that. And then you were like, I’m gonna have a tech startup. And maybe my whole brain just went like, whoa, wow. Like, I just would love to hear like, how on earth did you like, manage that jump? Because it doesn’t sound like you’re the dude back there like doing the keystroke, you know, like, you’re the ideas person. How did that go?

Nick Black  
I have a, if anything in my life, the one constant thread least my wife says I just run to things that piss me off and try to solve them. So I was a senior in high school during 911. I was a I went to Langley High School a mile away from the CIA. I wanted to go to the military. But that really cemented what I want to do with my 20s. So I commissioned I had the fortune to serve with incredible human beings. But after my first 15 month deployment, where we fought every day in the border of Pakistan, all 120 of our guys made it out. And one of my soldiers took his life two weeks later. And so if I dedicated my 20s to closing with and destroying the guys who brought down the Twin Towers, it really set me off when I learned that we’ve lost more servicemen and women to suicide than the enemy. So the next thing that I wanted to get into was trying to solve that problem. Being an absolute moron, I said, How do I do this? And with two other guys, Brian Kinsella and Craig Gridelli, we started a nonprofit, no one’s ever accused me of being a nonprofit person, like, Hey, you’re gonna like this. But the guy, you’re gonna hand out soup, you know, and all this is saying, I’m here for the problem.

And I want to reduce veteran suicide to national average. But in doing that, as many of your listeners know, starting a nonprofit is brutal. absolutely brutal. It’s um, it’s challenged me in ways I never thought I’d ever be challenged.

And I’ll never forget selling my soul to do a wine tasting event outside of Washington, DC. My family, everyone we know, we tried to get people to show up. We made 40k. It cost 20. My dad came up to me and said whatever this things costs, I’ll write you a check. The next thing is one of my soldiers sending me a note and saying, hey, sir, did you get my $50 gift? I said, I don’t know. He’s like, well, I don’t need a thank you, but just want to let you know. And that set me off on the next question I have right now. And most organizations can only build relationships with the wealthiest people. Why does my soldier not deserve a meaningful experience? So how do we leverage technology to build that? So it’s just like this Russian stacking dolls of problems that make me angry. And here I am. 

Monica Pitts  
I mean, like, you’re like, did you find a programmer or how did that go?

Nick Black  
The gentleman I founded GoodUnited with is Jeremy Berman. And he’s absolutely brilliant. So he puts up with my nonsense. He can, he can do everything. But we built the team of the grit 62 employees in Charleston, South Carolina. And, you know, we’ve been, you know, we’ve had, it’s been a really hard road. But the mission for us is everything. Right? My goal, my daughter’s eight, she’s into unicorns right now. But you know, she couldn’t donate to the unicorns. So she saw the polar bear commercial for World Wildlife. And we made a donation. My goal is for power World Wildlife to send make give her a meaningful experience and channel, regardless of how much is worth right now, it’s nothing, right? But we can do that through technology.

No matter how much you’re worth, we can build the technology to make it reasonable and cost efficient for a nonprofit to ask the questions, what matters to the donors, and then doing that changed the entire thing.

Monica Pitts  
I love it. Well, thank you so much for that story. I just yeah, I’m like, I’m inspired that you are like, this is a problem, I should solve it. That’s awesome. So thank you so much for your time today. If people want to ask you questions about GoodUnited or any of the things that we talked about, how can they get a hold of you?

Nick Black  
Connect with me on LinkedIn. Or you send me an email, nick@goodunited.io

Monica Pitts  
Thank you so much. And thank you, everybody, for listening today. Thank you. So thank you so much for your time today. Once again, my name is Monica Pitts. And you’re listening to Nonprofit Marketing with Purpose. Now, before I let you go, I just want to remind you about that little favor I asked you about in the beginning, will you please review this podcast wherever you’re listening? It will help us show up when people are looking for answers to the problems that this podcast will help them solve. So if you’re a fan and you haven’t reviewed the podcast, please leave me a review. That would be so awesome. I would love to hear your feedback. And if this was your first time, I mean, double welcome and I hope you learned a thing or two. So leave a review so we can connect with even more awesome nonprofits just like you and help them on their journey to less stressful and more successful marketing. Thanks again for your time today. Now until next time, go forth and market with purpose.